bladox.com Forum Index bladox.com
Turbo SIM Toolkit Adapter Forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Many questions

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    bladox.com Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tetrascanner
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject: Many questions Reply with quote

Hi,

I have a lot of newcomer questions:


1) User-manual without Bladox on it.

Can i resell this trough my website ? most interesting
would be the Auto-Alarm...can you supply a user-manual
without your name...to avoid customers passing me by ?


2) LAC/Cell-iD uses.

How can i use the LAC/Cell-iD information if i dont have
a list off LAC's or Cell-iD's

In practically all countries these lists are not available to the public.
So if the purpose of LAC/Cell-iD would be to know approx the position
of a stolen car...it will not help.
So in practice that function will be useless unless you get the cooperation
of the network-owners...(wich you usaually don't get)
They may even ask for a wiretap-authorisation wich can only be issued
by the department of justice (judge/prosecutor).


3) Including "TA" for better positioning

For a futere version i have some idea's
can it be made so you get also the value of TA wich is "Timing-Advance"
this is available in the phone (no idea if that can be retrieved trough
the SIM-card port)
It will give you a distance to the Cell (a circle around it)
The stolen car is ON the circle.
Even better would be 3 TA's from 3 different cells...so by overlaying
the 3 resulting circles you can have a accurate (100m) position of the car.
Ofcourse this only works if you have the Cell-iD list ...wich is a problem.


4) In and output levels (voltages) of additional alarm in/outputs

In the standard version of Auto-Alarm can the in and outputs be used ?
meaning are they standard activated (working)...can you give a simple
description of how these in and outputs work...for example:

Output 1: normally Low ...to activate a High level must be applied.
Low is 0~2.5 Volt High is 2.5~5 Volt ,or TTL or 3 V technique ?
...etc for all in and outputs.

If i know this i could make my own interfacing circuitry.


5) Auto-Alarm usable with GSM-modules ?

Can i use Auto-Alarm with GSM-modules ? yes i understand that
i will have to put the SIM-card with the application first into
a normal phone to do some settings...is it possible ?


6) Application for "Show if GSM-network-Crypto is on of off"

In the older days you could see on your phone if the GSM-network
was using Crypto or not...in most countries it is always switched-on.
In some cases it could be temporarely be switched of...for example
when your phone is being tapped by interception-equipment like
the so called "IMSI-catcher...this IMSI-catcher acts as a fake basestation
and your phone will connect to it thinking it has connected to the real
network...in order to tap you the IMSI-catcher does not use crypto.

Problem is that modern phones don't show anymore if crypto is on or off
it can display it...but it will not because this is controlled by a certain bit
on the SIM-card

I could imagine you could have an application that will show this again
since it is controlled by the SIM-card.

Like that you would have a phone that will tell you if you are being tapped
by an IMSI-catcher or it will indicate you that the network is Unsafe.

If the phone can't display it (no icon available) you could have a LED
on the circuit-board that will light up.

Good Idea...bad idea?


Thanks !

contranl

http://www.tetrascanner.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gsm-scanner
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/traffic-cams
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iPod-video
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICOM-IC-R1500
Back to top
pz
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Many questions Reply with quote

Tetrascanner wrote:
Hi,

I have a lot of newcomer questions:


1) User-manual without Bladox on it.

Can i resell this trough my website ? most interesting
would be the Auto-Alarm...can you supply a user-manual
without your name...to avoid customers passing me by ?


For what country(-ies)? In theory yes.

Quote:

2) LAC/Cell-iD uses.

How can i use the LAC/Cell-iD information if i dont have
a list off LAC's or Cell-iD's

In practically all countries these lists are not available to the public.
So if the purpose of LAC/Cell-iD would be to know approx the position
of a stolen car...it will not help.
So in practice that function will be useless unless you get the cooperation
of the network-owners...(wich you usaually don't get)
They may even ask for a wiretap-authorisation wich can only be issued
by the department of justice (judge/prosecutor).


For some countries this info is public, for some it's collected by voluntiers and available. But you are right that in some/most countries it's a problem.

Turbo Motion 2 - AA2 has rs232 for gps connection.

Quote:


3) Including "TA" for better positioning

For a futere version i have some idea's
can it be made so you get also the value of TA wich is "Timing-Advance"
this is available in the phone (no idea if that can be retrieved trough
the SIM-card port)


Yes, it can - if supported, most phones do.

Quote:

It will give you a distance to the Cell (a circle around it)
The stolen car is ON the circle.
Even better would be 3 TA's from 3 different cells...so by overlaying
the 3 resulting circles you can have a accurate (100m) position of the car.
Ofcourse this only works if you have the Cell-iD list ...wich is a problem.


There is access only to TA of serving cell.

Quote:

4) In and output levels (voltages) of additional alarm in/outputs

In the standard version of Auto-Alarm can the in and outputs be used ?
meaning are they standard activated (working)...can you give a simple
description of how these in and outputs work...for example:

Output 1: normally Low ...to activate a High level must be applied.
Low is 0~2.5 Volt High is 2.5~5 Volt ,or TTL or 3 V technique ?
...etc for all in and outputs.


Please look at Turbo Lite 2 pdf, there are also optoisolated i/o.

Quote:

If i know this i could make my own interfacing circuitry.


No problem, all info is on our site, even examples of such boards, look into products section.


Quote:

5) Auto-Alarm usable with GSM-modules ?

Can i use Auto-Alarm with GSM-modules ? yes i understand that
i will have to put the SIM-card with the application first into
a normal phone to do some settings...is it possible ?


Yes, if module supports SIM Toolkit.

Quote:

6) Application for "Show if GSM-network-Crypto is on of off"

In the older days you could see on your phone if the GSM-network
was using Crypto or not...in most countries it is always switched-on.
In some cases it could be temporarely be switched of...for example
when your phone is being tapped by interception-equipment like
the so called "IMSI-catcher...this IMSI-catcher acts as a fake basestation
and your phone will connect to it thinking it has connected to the real
network...in order to tap you the IMSI-catcher does not use crypto.

Problem is that modern phones don't show anymore if crypto is on or off
it can display it...but it will not because this is controlled by a certain bit
on the SIM-card

I could imagine you could have an application that will show this again
since it is controlled by the SIM-card.

Like that you would have a phone that will tell you if you are being tapped
by an IMSI-catcher or it will indicate you that the network is Unsafe.

If the phone can't display it (no icon available) you could have a LED
on the circuit-board that will light up.

Good Idea...bad idea?


Unfortunatelly SIM doesn't have access to this info (I hope to be correct, never saw any such flag/info in SIM docs.)

Quote:

Thanks !

contranl

http://www.tetrascanner.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gsm-scanner
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/traffic-cams
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iPod-video
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICOM-IC-R1500
Back to top
tetrascanner
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: Many questions Reply with quote

.


>> For what country(-ies)? In theory yes.

The Netherlands..but i have never seen such list..only
for Germany where it seems to popular to gather
Cell-iD's and there locations


>> Turbo Motion 2 - AA2 has rs232 for gps connection.

Yes but no need to re-invent the wheel i like to do it with GSM only
wich has better coverage.



>> There is access only to TA of serving cell.

At Sim-card level you mean ? the phone itself knows 6 Cells+ 6 TA's

There is a new technique called "Matrix" developed by
Cambridge Positioning Systems (CPS)
They use 3 Cell-id's and their TA's
These are sent to a website
wich compares them against a Cell-id/position list wich they get from
the phone company.
Then they overlay the 3 circles and as a result get 100 mtr accuracy
instead of previously 300~8000 meters !
...like that you don't need GPS anymore

Probably they have special phones for that...but i wonder if
the whole application could be done via SIM-card only
(or SIM-card module only)
...like that you could use any phone.



>> Yes, if module supports SIM Toolkit.

Any idea if they do support it ? Phyton maybe ?


>> 6) Application for "Show if GSM-network-Crypto is on of off"

>> Unfortunatelly SIM doesn't have access to this info (I hope to be
>> correct, never saw any such flag/info in SIM docs.)

It is a certain bit on the SIM-card 100% guaranteed !
please read below thread from my Yahoo-group:

======

I am sorry, but I overlooked the OFM bit when I checked GSM 11.11. My
fault.

In ETS 300 977 (GSM 11.11 version 5.9.1) (October 1998) there is no
OFM bit.

In TS 100 977 V6.2.0 (1999-05) (GSM 11.11 version 6.2.0 Release 1997)
there is an OFM bit, but there is no description of the meaning of
the OFM bit!

In ETSI TS 100 977 V8.3.0 (2000-0Cool (GSM 11.11 version 8.3.0 Release
1999) there is an OFM (Operational Feature Monitor) bit and the
meaning of this bit is: "The OFM bit is used to control the Ciphering
Indicator as specified in TS 02.07 [3]"

The OFM bit is in the EF (elementary files), identifer 6FAD, third
byte, bit 0.

It is time to buy a SIM card reader Sad to check (and modify Smile the
OFM bit.

====

Maybe you want to join my Yahoo-group called GSM-scanner
where we discuss these kind of things...it will bring you some
customers for bladox-products as well:
Offcourse your knowledge and input would be appriciated Smile

That group is here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gsm-scanner

No problem if you post a message announcing Bladox and it's
products

The groups members are from different backgrounds like:

security,surveillance,spyshops,radio-amateurs,gsm-technicians,hobby

Thanks !

contranl
(moderator Yahoo-GSM-scanner)
Back to top
pz
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately the OFM bit is unuable for this - it is only read by ME - not rewritten following current situation. It's just indication if encryption is to be off, mainly for testing purpose - this is what EF_AD is mainly about.

Anyway thanks for invitation to gsm-scanner group, will take a look.
Back to top
pz
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for CID lists - http://senderliste.de/
Back to top
pz
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Many questions Reply with quote

tetrascanner wrote:
.

>> There is access only to TA of serving cell.

At Sim-card level you mean ? the phone itself knows 6 Cells+ 6 TA's

There is a new technique called "Matrix" developed by
Cambridge Positioning Systems (CPS)
They use 3 Cell-id's and their TA's
These are sent to a website
wich compares them against a Cell-id/position list wich they get from
the phone company.
Then they overlay the 3 circles and as a result get 100 mtr accuracy
instead of previously 300~8000 meters !
...like that you don't need GPS anymore

Probably they have special phones for that...but i wonder if
the whole application could be done via SIM-card only
(or SIM-card module only)
...like that you could use any phone.


SIM has access only to TA of serving cell, i.e. only one.

Quote:

>> Yes, if module supports SIM Toolkit.

Any idea if they do support it ? Phyton maybe ?


Usually do - at leasts siemens, eri.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="pz"]Unfortunately the OFM bit is unuable for this - it is only read by ME - not rewritten following current situation. It's just indication if encryption is to be off, mainly for testing purpose - this is what EF_AD is mainly about.

As far as i understand this bit is not updated to a changing situation

It only tells the phone if it should show the indication...if the icon should be displayed yes or no...the state of that icon or indicator is not
regulated by it.

When the phone is switched on it will read that bit just once
and displays the icon or indicator..the state of the indicator itself
[crypto=on] or [crypto=off] is gathered from the phone not the SIM

This is what i have been told...it might be wrong

GSM-manufacturers have decided that it was not an neccesary item
anymore to be incorperated in their phones (SIM'S)...you wil
understand why.

contranl
http://www.tetrascanner.com
Back to top
pz
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Anonymous"]
pz wrote:
Unfortunately the OFM bit is unuable for this - it is only read by ME - not rewritten following current situation. It's just indication if encryption is to be off, mainly for testing purpose - this is what EF_AD is mainly about.

As far as i understand this bit is not updated to a changing situation

It only tells the phone if it should show the indication...if the icon should be displayed yes or no...the state of that icon or indicator is not
regulated by it.

When the phone is switched on it will read that bit just once
and displays the icon or indicator..the state of the indicator itself
[crypto=on] or [crypto=off] is gathered from the phone not the SIM

This is what i have been told...it might be wrong

GSM-manufacturers have decided that it was not an neccesary item
anymore to be incorperated in their phones (SIM'S)...you wil
understand why.

contranl
http://www.tetrascanner.com


Mmm, yes, it seems so. Anyway Trubo SIM can fake/modify EF_AD
to turbn this flag on/off. All SIM cards I checked have it '1'.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    bladox.com Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group